Black and White

Story by Karlyene on SoFurry

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Two very fat Ponies in Ponyville loung about and enjoy their day - the only way to do that, of course, is with diapers, lots of snuggles, and some fun surprises!

Pony, MLP, Babyfur, Fat, Expansion, Hyper, Masturbation


Commission for TheConflicted TheConflicted

Commissions avaliable upon request


In Ponyville, there were many types of ponies. There were unicorns and alicorns, Pegasus and simply plain ponies. The town was always filled with the scent of baking and apples, and with the sound of laughter and friendship. It was truly that bond that brought so many of the citizens of Ponyville together, and it is just that bond that brought two particular ponies together in a very close way.

It wasn't an odd thing, just to describe it. A Batpony named Black and a Pegasus named White were two of the very best of friends. Black was quite the muscular pony, and he liked to wear the clothing of a butler - this was because one of his very favorite pass times was to take care of White. White was a snowy Pegasus... there were, perhaps two odd things about these ponies, as far as the other citizens of Ponyville were concerned, though the two of them were perfectly happy with their lives. The first thing was the simple fact that both ponies were overly large. Black had muscles so large that he could hardly fit through his own front door, and so large that he'd made sure the kitchen entrance was four times the normal size of any other kitchen. White was larger than black, but his size came not from muscles, but instead a great, rounded body. White was the kind of fat that wasn't grotesque, but instead cuddly... and both ponies absolutely loved everything about their physique. It was because of these body types that the second fact about the two ponies came into play - their bodies were so large that they were unable to fit through any and all bathroom doors, and because of this simple fact the two had found out something about themselves that they would have otherwise never known.

It was something they enjoyed. It was something that they loved very much.

White and Black were both proud to wear enormous, plush diapers. Upon discovering their love for the soft, padded pantaloons, each of which had yellow ducks and bunnies on the front... they realized that there was more about this particular world that they could love. From bottles to pacifiers, the two loved everything that had to do with being quite foalish. The wonderful thing about Ponyville was that the citizens never judged either of them, and still had a great time telling them hello. They were loved and accepted, and were therefore allowed to do exactly what they wanted to do... and the favorite pass time of the two ponies was to eat, to play, and to allow their bodies to grow larger and larger with each passing second.

Today was such a day, when White and Black were lounging in their living room. Black had just prepared a great meal for the two ponies - it was all of their favorite things. Macaroni and cheese, mashed potatoes, green beans and chicken. All of the things that could be easily eaten on plastic plates that had cute designs. One of White's favorite times of the day was dinner time (even though there were quite a few snack times in between) because at dinner time, he got to watch his body grow! The same happened with Black, though White noticed that black never gained weight, but instead muscle. Still, White happily lowered his head to the plate sat before him by his friend clad in a butler suit and began to lap at the mashed potatoes, making happy cooing sounds as they entered his mouth.

"This is the best, Black! Thank you so much!" The pony's voice was full of delight and child-like glee, and even as black watched, White's stomach began to slowly stretch with each bite swallowed and each mouthful that disappeared from his plate, until White's stomach began to hang soft and squishy over the top of his diaper.

The batpony allowed his wings to curl contentedly against his frame as he watched his friend eat, his body growing as he did. Once he was completely certain that the food was satisfactory he lowered his head and began to eat his own food. Black loved, more than anything in his world, to treat his friend like the prince that he was. If he could spend a day making sure that White got everything that he wanted, and that his frame got to gain a few more pounds... then that was a good day for him.

As Black ate, there was a small sound of creaking and his muscles began to expand ever-so-slightly. It was as though he had spent a few hours at the gym. The veins on his body began to pop ever-so-slightly, and the two of them filled the room with the sound of eating and their expanding bodies. It didn't take them very long to clean their plates... and as they did, they sat back. White rubbed his stomach, now a few inches larger, with his hooves, making an appreciative sound. "Oh, Black, that was quite yummy."

Black could only beam in pleasure at the simple fact that he'd made White so happy... and he knew that the day was just beginning. There was already a look in his very best friend's eyes that let him know what the Pegasus wanted next. There was a creaking and groaning sound as Black pushed his impressively large frame up from the kitchen table and made his way to the cabinets that lined the kitchen walls. He looked over his shoulder and smile at his friend, "I bet that someone needs to be burped, don't they?"

White could only grin in response.

"Now, why don't we go into the living room, hmm? We can get the television turned on and I can make sure that you're as comfortable as possible." Black crooked his hoof at White and the two wobbled into the living room, where the batpony stood with a burping rag over his shoulder, his large arms out so that he could wrap them around his Pegasus friend and pull him close. Their bodies were far too large for White to easily fit against Black's frame, but it did allow them to rub the front of their plush diapers against one another.

Still, he managed to get a few good pats on White's back so that the other pony let out a delicate burp. Feeling satisfied, White quickly pranced to the couch, letting his massive six hundred pound frame plop down against it so that the springs creaked.

"Does someone want a pacifier now?" Black's voice was a sweet sing-song tune, and White nodded excitedly. The Batpony brought two rather large pacifiers out, one white and one black, handing the one that matched the pegasus' color to his friend before allowing himself to plop down onto the couch beside white so that they could both stick the pacifiers into their mouths and begin to suck.

The room was filled with the sweet sound of rubber being sucked hair and fast, like two content foals who were just put down for their nap. Black quickly flipped on the television, turning on a brightly colored children's show so that they could lay back against the plushness of the couch and enjoy the oral sensation of the pacifiers working against their tongues. As they were prone to do, however, this action didn't keep either of them content for very long at all. It only took a few moments for White's eyes to sidle to the side to look at his friend, and as soon as Black noticed the Pegasus looking at him, he knew exactly what it was that he wanted. The pacifier popped from the Butler Dressed Pony's mouth in an audible POP! And he pushed himself up from the couch with another burst of creaking springs. "I have a feeling that it's time for someone to have their after dinner bottle, isn't it?"

Again, White could only nod his head in quick excitement, making his stomach jiggle.

Black had made so many bottles for the two of them that he was actually quite quick at preparation, so it took him only a few minutes in the kitchen and he returned with two bottles, both a liter apiece, full of warm and sloshing milk. White happily held his hands out, his mouth already open in anticipation for the warmth of the liquid splashing over his tongue, and Black sat down beside his friend, handing him the bottle so that they could both enjoy the liquid together. Again, the room was feeling with slurping, lapping sounds as the nipples of the bottles were popped into two pony mouths. White was able to drain the bottle much quicker than his friend, and it clearly showed as his stomach gave a rumbling, creaking groan, swelling larger and larger with each gulp so that the expansion of it actually lifted the bottom of the bottle, making it so that the Pegasus didn't even have to hold the container as he drank. Contented sounds spilled from his lips as he popped the nipple from his mouth and turned his gaze to Black, who slowly drained the rest of his bottle. It honestly seemed as though what he drank was muscle milk, because each slow gulp caused the circumference of his arms to expand, the six pack on his stomach to become more and more prominent until his body was literally rippling with his muscle growth and you could actually see the outline of his abs even against his shirt. After the batpony finished his bottle as well, both of them allowed the containers to slip from their hooves and fall to the floor to be cleaned up by Black at a later time.

White allowed his head to loll happily to the side, looking at Black. "I'd really like some cuddles now, if you wouldn't mind?" There was a sweet innocence on the pony's face, and just the look that he gave Black caused the Batpony's heart to melt.

"Of course you can have some cuddles, White. Don't you know that cuddles are perhaps my favorite of times to spend with you?" Black's voice was soft and soothing, and he rose into a standing position even as he spoke, so that he could bring his body over to sit down beside White. The Pegasus looked at him with wide, anxious eyes. It was quite obvious that White was more than just a little loving and dependent on the black pony turned butler. His eyes were wide, full of the trust of a child... and his arms were held out as Black approached, so as soon as the Batpony settled beside him, White dove against his chest, snuggling his head against the crinkling muscles of Black's frame.

"Oh, this is my favorite place." White's voice was a gentle murmur, and Black brought his arms around so that he could allow his hooves to press into the wibbly fat of White's body. Holding the other pony to his frame, Black couldn't help but to let out a sigh of contentment. He would have to agree with the sweet, shy pony nuzzling against him. Out of all of the places in the world that he could be, snuggled with White on the couch was certainly one of the best places in the entire world. A smile spread across his face, and he actually felt it as his dark cheeks stung with a bit of a blush. Sometimes, when he allowed himself to get so sentimental, he found himself easily blushing... and this situation was no different.

"Black...?" The soft and gentle voice came from White after a few moments of them cuddling. Black could tell that the pony was already a little nervous about asking for what he wanted, even though he knew for a fact that Black would give him whatever his heart desired. "Black... do you think..." White trailed off again, burying his face against the squishing muscles of the beefcakes chest.

"What is it, White?" Black gently rubbed the white pony's back, trying to prompt him to find the bravery to ask for what he wanted. "What is it that you want? You know that I would do anything for you."

For another moment, White was a little silent, before finally letting out the smallest of giggles and answering. "Do you think that make you could give me rubs?" The question was so small, and Black couldn't help but to chuckle at the way that White posed it, as though Black would do anything but say yes.

"Of course you can have rubs, you silly little pony!" And as though to emphasize exactly how silly White was being, Black took a moment to start tickling him, so that White let out a squeal of joy and squirmed on the couch, his immense girth actually causing the springs to groan ever-so-slightly with the thrashing of his movements. Even though it wasn't what White had asked for, Black was quite aware that his friend enjoyed a good tickle session, even if he adamantly denied it while it was happening.

"Oh, no! No! Black, I said rubs not - hehehehe, not tickles! Noooo!" White wailed out, thrashing about even as his arms continued to hold tight to Black, further proving to the Batpony that White didn't really want him to stop. He chuckled and continued with his tickling assault for a moment, his hooves finding every spot that was most sensitive to White - along his sides, under his chin, against his hips. It was only when White's breaths were coming in sharp gasps and it was obvious that his friend was becoming light headed for all of the giggles that Black stopped his movements, instead transitioning quickly into a belly rub. White let out a few more giggles, but those giggles quickly turned into sighs of content as Black allowed his hoof to move over and over the large globe that was White's stomach. The Pegasus actually allowed his eyes to close for a moment in sweet content and he let out a low murr of satisfaction. "Oh, Black, you always know just how to make me happy, do you know that?" There was a slow slurr to White's voice, as though he were literally drunk on just the sensation of getting his belly rubbed. Black could do nothing more than to smile at his friends words, and at the reaction that White was giving to something as simple as simply having his belly rubbed.

The batpony continued to allow his hoof to lazily circle along the rotund belly, the pressure of his rubs causing him to sink slightly into the fat of that stomach. Still, there was nothing nicer to him than this, and he personally loved the way that White's body was. The Pegasus was fat, quite fat... and he grew fatter each and every day... but there was a solidity to the fact that made it so very enjoyable to touch and to love on... there was something about the density of it that caused Black to want to touch him more and more each and every day. Perhaps it was the simple fact that White was such an opposite to his own, Beefcake frame. Whatever it was, Black continued to find himself completely compelled to be around his friend, to touch, to please, and to make sure that whatever it was that White wanted, White got without fail. For a few more moments, Black continued to rub against White's belly, but after a while, he knew that there were other places that White loved to be petted. His hoof moved in a slow, lazy motion over the arc of White's stomach and around his enormous hips. The Pegasus never complained as Black's pets transitioned from his rather large stomach to his extremely large butt. In fact, White let out a small sigh of pure joy as soon as Black's hoof connected, and he could do nothing more than to murr and snuggle up against the couch and Black, actually shifting his hips so that he could stick his butt further into the air and allow Black easier access to the enormous cheeks.

"I know exactly what you like, don't I, White?" Black grinned as he asked the question, and he could literally hear a small little embarrassed squeak spill out of White's mouth. Of course, the pony liked it, or Black wouldn't have done it to begin with. He gave a small chuckle and continued to stroke his hoofs slowly but very firmly along White's bottom. While his stomach was much more taut, there was a softness to White's butt that was Black's favorite thing. It was so squishy and wobbly, and Black honestly felt sometimes as though he could bury his face against White's enormous bottom and get lost there amongst the soft flesh.

Of course, that wasn't going to happen! What would White do, after all, if he didn't have Black around to take care of him? Black didn't even want to think about it. He, in fact, refused to do just that. Instead, he continued to stroke his hoof over and over again against White's large posterior, allowing the pressure of his touch to cause the flesh to wibble every time he removed his hoof so that he could move back to the top of those enormous buttcheeks .

There was something so pleasing about the motion, and he could hear small little sounds of pleasure and joy spilling from White's lips that let him know the white pony felt exactly the same way about that pleasure. With a small little sigh of content, Black continued to work his hoof over White's bottom until both of them were letting out small little sounds of joy and pleasure at the sensation of it. Black found himself unable to stop his motions next - his hoof went beneath the bottom half of White's enormous buttcheek and lifted up. With a small chuckle, he let the enormous globe go, so that the fat rippled downward, spilling to hit against the couch. The movement caused a ripple to spill through White's entire body, the fat from his frame sending little shockwaves up and along his butt, his back, rippling to his shoulders.

"I love it when you make me wibble and wobble!" White cried the words out in pleasure, and Black couldn't help but to grin at the pure excitement in his friend's voice. Of course, he loved to do exactly the same thing. Perhaps the biggest reason that Black enjoyed taking care of White so much was because of the simple fact that everything that White wanted, everything that he needed was something that Black was more than just willing to provide. It was something that he well and truly loved and enjoyed - it was something that brought him more pleasure that he could have voiced, and something that he would have done without any incentive, without any reason to. The fact that he had a reason, that he got to make White happy in the process of carrying out these actions was simply perfect. He could have his cake and eat it to, so to speak (though eating cake at that moment might have been unwise for how much it would have made the Black pony grow). He got to make White happy, which was his favorite thing in the entire world to do... and he got to enjoy each and every moment of it in a way that he had never before fathomed that he would be allowed to do. Some ponies in this world were well and truly lucky, and Black knew for a fact that he was one of those ponies. He was never going to take it for granted.

Instead, he let a small smile cross his features and moved his hoof to lift up White's other enormous cheek. The Pegasus let out a small squeal of delight as Black lifted the fat little globe as high as it could go before dropping it, so that it shockwaved along his bottom and back again. For a moment, Black simply caused White's buttcheeks to wibble and wobble, before he let out a small little chuckle and flipped White over. Both hooves came to White's belly now, and this time Black wasn't rubbing. He began to rock his arms up and down, so that the wiggling fat on White's stomach began to ripple and roil like some kind of ocean with churning waves. White began to giggle at the sensation of it - and more than that, as Black worked against White's stomach, it caused his own body to crinkle and wiggle ever so slightly. Black, of course, was much more muscle than fat, so his muscles tensed up from the motion of what he was doing, and the fat that was layered on top of them rippled and roiled with the motion that Black was giving. After all, even though he made it look extremely easy, the simple fact was that not many ponies could do what he was doing. White's frame was extremely heavy, and the snowy Pegasus could have easily crushed another pony by accident. It wasn't simply that he adored white that made them so perfect together. It was also the fact that here in Ponyville, there weren't very many other ponies that could have possibly managed White's enormous girth without the help of magic.

Black didn't need any kind of magic, though he certainly wouldn't have minded. No, all that he needed was the strength of his arms and his love for White. Sometimes Black wondered if White was the reason that his muscles were so very large. After all, taking care of such an enormous weight so frequently was certainly something to cause strain on muscles, and certainly something that would have given him a reason to work out even more. Yes, White's weight could have easily been a contributing factor to the fact that Black's bicep was as big around as a normal ponies torso.

Black didn't mind, and White certainly seemed to love the fact that his friend and caretaker was so very strong. It made it very easy for Black to do exactly as he was doing - he wibbled and wobbled White's tummy until the Pegasus' entire body was rippling and roiling with the motion of it - from the fat on his arms to the squish beneath his chin. It was perfect, and White couldn't help but to let out squeal after squeal of delighted laughter and happiness as Black carried on with what he was doing for a few more moments.

It was only as the clock in their hallway began to chime that Black slowly began to calm down and back off of White's rather enormous belly. "We can do more of this later - I wouldn't want you to miss your show, after all." The pout that had been threatening to form on White's fact quickly disappeared as soon as Black mentioned the show. It was, after all, one of White's very favorite things, and it was just perfect that Black was the one who always knew when it came on, and who always made sure that White didn't miss even a moment of it. Black leaned forward, actually placing a gentle kiss against White's forehead.

"Now, you just stay here." He leaned forward, turning the television on and flipping the channels until it was exactly where it was supposed to be. "And I will be back with your cookies and milk in just a moment."

White didn't have time to protest over the fact that Black was getting up and leaving, because the theme song to his favorite cartoon was spilling through the living room, and he could do nothing more than turn rapt attention to the enormous flat screen TV in front of him, his eyes sparkling with delight and a smile across his features.

While White was watching the television, Black quickly pulled out the tray that he used every day. He lined it with chocolate chip cookies and then quickly mixed together some chocolate milk. He knew exactly what White wanted, and exactly how he wanted it, and he would make sure that the pony got it. It only took him a few moments to get everything prepared, and then he was bringing the tray back into the living room and pulling up the small table so that he could place the tray in front of White. The only difference this time was the fact that Black sat himself back down beside his friend, so that the snowy Pegasus could snuggle against him as he leaned his hands forward and began to munch happily on cookies. Each chocolate circle brought another groan from White's body, and another pound added to his belly. Black happily snagged one of the cookies for himself, feeling his own body well as he gulped it down.

Still, there was nothing better than to sit, watching the show full of bright colors, wonderful music, and frivolous ponies that played in front of them. Once the cookies were devoured, Black pushed the tray back and simply wrapped his arms around White, so that the other pony could snuggle tight against his frame. This moment was perfect for both of them, and it was something that they well and truly enjoyed. White could feel the strength of Black's muscled arms wrapped around him, and he couldn't help but to think of how nice it had been for his friend to rub against his body. He bit his lower lip, feeling something happening that hadn't happened in quite a while. Though he loved his show, his concentration for it slowly slipping away.

It was as the cartoon came to its close, the theme song playing gently in the background that Black noticed White was looking at him again with wide and innocent eyes. Their bodies hadn't come out of proximity of each other, so it was very easy for White to snuggle even closer to Black, the fullness of his body pressing firmly against the batpony's frame. White gave a small little chuckle, smiling in a gentle manner before pulling gently on Black's well muscled arm. While some ponies might have protested, might have asked what White wanted before they simply allowed their frames to be maneuvered in such a fashion, Black simply wasn't like that. He wanted White to have each and every thing that he could possibly want, and if that included Black being moved this way and that like some kind of dollie, Black was willing to let that happen. It seemed that White had something else in mind altogether though - because as soon as Black was facing towards his friend, he could feel the pressure of White's diaper against his own.

And with that pressure, he could also feel what had perhaps been the reason that White had been shifting around during the television show so much, and why White was turning him towards his frame now. Beneath the soft squish of the diaper, there was something hard and firm, as though White had stuck a rattle down the front of his diaper and forgotten about it. Of course, Black knew for a fact that White didn't have a rattle... and he also knew for a fact that this wasn't anything other than White's own body reaction with pleasure and joy.

There is research everywhere about how children go through phases in life. There are stages of pleasure, whether it be oral or physical. With White seemingly forever caught in a perpetual child-like manner, he was also constantly in a heightened state of awareness of his bodies own sensations and pleasures... and each and every time that he realized that there was something happening in his southern regions, it was more than just a little easy for White to want Black to help him with the problem.

Black could feel his own diaper becoming a little more snug just from the sensation of White pressing against him like that - there was something so delightful about knowing that his friend had become aroused from their snuggling and the way that he loved him. It let Black know that White truly did care and appreciate each and every thing that Black did for him... and that White would more than likely continue to do so for as long as the two of them existed together. "Oh, White..." Black tsked gently, and his pelvis moved so that the front of their squishy diapers began to rub together. It was such a lovely and pleasurable experience that Black couldn't help the small moan that spilled from his lips. Following that moan, a blush quickly spread across his features. White, however, had his eyes rapt and at attention on Black's face, and the blush just caused the Pegasus to give a small chuckle and a delighted giggle.

"Black, you're my favorite pony in the whole wide world!" White's voice was softly sweet and sincere, and Black knew that his friend was speaking the words from his heart. It only made him want to move his body even more, so that Black could feel the front of his diaper rubbing harder against the front of White's own. Their large bodies easily sported two very large erections, and it was easy for the other to feel that as they worked against one another. They had only been moving and rocking, rubbing diapers for a few moments when White began to tremble with the pleasure that was already spilling through his entire body - it was always like this, though. White seemed to be feeling such sweet release from the very moment that they started touching. Seeing his friend tremble and smile, moan and feel joy in such a fashion was more than enough to cause Black to continue on, moving his body harder and faster, so that the rocking, leaning motion of their gyrating hips brought them closer and closer together.

It was Black's strong arms that pulled White closer, that forced his enormous belly to nearly encompass the batpony. Black didn't care - it was like he was being held from all sides, and that sweet girth was just cradling him as he continued on with his motions. His arms held White tight, and he continued to rock, his pelvis working to and fro, and the sound of two squishing, crinkling diapers filling the room, spilling over the volume of the television that was still on beside them. There was another sound - sweet little chitters of pleasure and happiness - it was truly a beautiful thing, the way that the two ponies worked against one another. White seemed to look at Black with such adoration and love that there was room for nothing else on his face. Of course, there was something else there - a growing pleasure and contentment, and the knowledge that soon he would have the best feeling that he could have. Black, on the other hand, had closed his eyes tight for a moment... his own body was starting to feel a rippling roll of pleasure, and he knew that he wasn't going to be able to hold on for much longer. It wasn't as though he was trying, of course... no, there was something so wonderful about just allowing it to happen. Their diapers continued to work against one another, the stiffness within beginning to ache and throb with each thrust until both ponies could no longer stand it. A small cry of pleasure spilled from White's throat, and a scream of aching need from Black's. "Oh, Goodness!" "Oh, White!" Their voices cried out in tandem, and suddenly the diapers that they were wearing that had been dry moments prior became soaked through and through with evidence of the fact that they were no longer in aching need. The firmness that had filled their diapers was replaced with that thick, sticky moisture... and both ponies collapsed back against the couch with their chests heaving and their bodies trembling and aching.

Black was more than content to stay in the sweet folds of White's body, and for a little while they made no move to get up, no move to do anything other than enjoy the sensation of the embrace of the other. It was only as the heated liquid in their diapers began to cool that Black knew they needed to get up. After all, cold, wet, sticky diapers weren't very comfortable... and he didn't want White to feel discomfort after such a wonderful thing had just happened to them. "I think we both need a diaper change now." Black's voice was full of sweet content and joy as the two caught their breath. White only smiled at him, grinning and nodding. "Maybe we could take a bubble bath and then go to bed?" White's eyes were wide with joy at the prospect of what he had suggested. Honestly, Black couldn't think of a better thing that exactly that.

"I think that's a wonderful idea, White! Why don't you go on to the room and get your diaper off, and I'll get a bath drawn for you, all right?" For both of them - after all, with two large ponies such as themselves, their bathtub was much more of a swimming pool. Thankfully, there were many faucets, and it never took too long to fill up. Not to mention that any bath they took was at least 60% bubbles to please White. A warm bath though, and then perhaps another bottle while they laid down to take a nap... it sounded perfect.

"I love you, Black!" White's voice was soft, sweet, innocent and pure as he spoke. He had stood, and was making his way to the room. But as his words spilled out, he turned and ran back to his caretaker and friend, wrapping his arms tight around him and drawing him into a tight hug. White's voice was sweet and soft as he spoke, and there was a sincerity in the tone that caused Black's heart to feel warm. "You take such good care of me, Black. I know I don't say it very often, but I wanted you to know that I love you very much, and I don't know what I would do without you. You are my favorite pony in the world." He smiled, snugging against Black and holding him close as though he had absolutely no intention of letting him go.

While Black would have been content to simply stay in that embrace forever, he knew that they both needed to get out of their soggy diapers, and that White would well and truly love his bath once he actually crawled into the tub. Still, the sincerity of his friends words was more than enough to make him smile, to make his heart warm, to make him want, for just another moment, to stay in the circle of White's arms. After a few seconds, however, he knew that he had to move. "I love you, too, White. You're the best thing that has ever happened to me, and you're my favorite pony in the whole wide world to spend time with." Black's arms held the Pegasus tight for a moment and he planted a gentle kiss on his cheek before pushing him away gently with a soft tap to his posterior. "Now, go and get ready for your bath. Don't worry," He added as White started to open his mouth, "There will be lots of bubbles!"

White galloped away in glee, a grin across his features and a skip to his step... and Black could do nothing more than to smile as he watched the innocence in his movements, and the way that White seemed completely and utterly content to do whatever he was told, to be taken care of... knowing this left Black aware of the fact that this was his life... that this would always be his life. White was his life, and he would certainly have it no other way.