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I didn't know if he was checking his phone or not while he was driving; I couldn't imagine Mom would have let him do that, but every time I saw he'd replied, my stomach did a flip...it was getting to the point that I felt like I couldn't finish my breakfast.

There would be stops along the way home for me to grab a bite, but right then, I would have gladly starved, if it meant that my father would have arrived a little faster. He wasn't coming alone, much as I would have been perfectly fine with that, but then, I did miss Mom...and I can't believe I'm saying it, but I even had a bit of a soft spot for Kade.

Some brothers, no matter how much of a pain in the neck they are, leave a gap in your life that only their presence can fill, and I knew we'd have a whole summer to catch up on the video games that we'd missed over the last four years.

Much as I was looking forward to wasting the summer indoors again and snacking on whatever goodies Mom was going to bring us, there was nothing more enticing than the anticipation of feeling Dad's eyes on me again...not through a video call or a picture message, but actually feeling the weight of his stare on my body when he came through the door of my dormitory.

I could only hope that he'd be more excited to see me than he'd be to see that all my boxes were packed up: I wanted to save his back some trouble, after all, but that had a lot less to do with his age.

I needed him to be fresh for what I had planned later; Kade could handle the heavier lifting.

"Not sure how I'm gonna make it another half an hour," I whispered into the phone, letting each word come to life on the screen before me. "I just might start having my fun without you, daddy."

In the past, they'd always used Mom's phone to navigate, so I had a feeling that Dad was checking his messages on the sly...but that one, I wish he would have seen a little bit sooner.

He left it on read all the way until they'd parked the car, and even after I rushed outside to greet them, I could tell that he knew what was on my mind, but there was a little information missing: his gaze was narrowed, and his grip around my back was so much tighter than Mom's or Kade's...but even he didn't have a clue how close I came to propping myself up on the boxes in the dorm and spreading my legs for a final round of fun with the privacy I had.

My roommates were already gone, and most of the campus had cleared out over the course of the week; on one hand, I knew that there would be more opportunities to find myself alone with him, if I just played my cards right.

On the other, sound carried a lot better in an empty building than a full one, and though keeping Kade distracted was as easy and leaving out a game console, keeping Mom busy wasn't going to be such a simple task.

When he sent me a private message, saying that he had that all figured out, I wanted to know what he was up to right away, but he'd been so patient with all of my teasing on the way out, it only seemed fair to keep on wondering.

He'd tell me when he was ready, and right after our first encounter in so many months wasn't the right time for that.

"Missed you, kiddo."

His voice was soft enough that Mom and Kade wouldn't be able to hear the subtle shift in his tone, but he wasn't going to play that fast and loose, much as I wanted him to.

As it ever was, our arrangement was something of a slow burn, and he was just stoking the fire, little by little, curious to see if I would be the one to take a risk first.

"Thanks for coming to get me, Daddy..."

My whisper was a little louder, my sensuality more obvious...but Mom was just on the other side of the car, propping the doors open to get my things loaded in.

In my haste, I admit, I hadn't considered where Kade was right then, but...I didn't much care, either: his mind was always buried so deep into the screen of a game that I don't think he would have been able to pick up on that kind of subtext, anyway.

He wouldn't have missed the fact that I was reaching for Daddy's butt, though, or the fact that his paws were getting ready to cup my own. I squeezed him a little tighter, knowing he'd get the silent warning, but there was instant regret in letting him go.

Warmth was already gathering between us when our hips were so close together, hugging tighter than family should have...but no one else was saying anything.

Far as I was concerned, I wanted to enjoy my relationship with him in the open for as long as I could; the rest of it had to remain hidden, and it would have been rude to leave all of the work to Mom and Kade.

"You two gonna stand there all day, or are you gonna grab some of these boxes?"

Just as I'd suspected, Kade was trying to get the attention and the credit for the work he was doing. To that end, I had to give him some credit: he'd beefed up just a little bit over the course of that last year, almost definitely at the suggestion of his girlfriend, but...well, it may have been a bit far of my to think, but the little bit of extra bulk looked really good on him.

It wasn't near enough to distract me from just how well Daddy was taking care of himself, even on in his years a bit.

"Thanks for reminding me about how much of martyr you are," I teased, grinning at Kade the same way that I ever had: with just a quick curl of the lips, I could always put him in his place...but I never wanted to hurt his feelings, of course.

I just wanted to remind him of his place in the family hierarchy, and after going so long without having him around as a punching bag, it was hard not to take advantage and make up for lost time.

If he'd only known what I was saving my energy for, he might not have been as grateful.

"Thanks for reminding me how lazy you are," he shot back, but I couldn't argue with the extra set of hands, much as some part of me had hoped that it would only be Daddy coming to get me.

We would have had the entire dorm to ourselves, if that had been the case...but I'd already set a trap elsewhere for him.

"I'm the one who's been up all day, working my ass off to get ready in time," I argued, still grinning at my defensive brother. "All you had to do was sit in the back of a car and play games on your Switch."

"...Sounds to me like you're afraid of seeing how much better I've gotten at Mash Siblings while you've been busy studying," he countered expertly; I wasn't sure where that confidence was coming from, but I had to chalk that up to his girlfriend, as well. "The van has Wi-Fi enabled, though...so I can whoop your butt the whole way back to the hotel."

Among everything else, that was a comforting thought: I knew my tail was wagging as I stepped away from the van.

"Glad you pointed that out," I mentioned. "Pretty sure my Switch is still in a box back in the room...not to mention the last of my laundry. Gimme a few minutes and I'll be back out with it."

I didn't notice it right away...the way the van was sinking toward the ground a little bit.

Daddy was crafty and clever, but I didn't think he'd go to such lengths just to have a minute alone with me, especially when we had a schedule to keep. I knew he wanted to be to the hotel before dark; there was plenty of daylight left, but I pretended not to notice the drooping tire as he followed me back toward the building.

"No way I'm gonna let you carry that much clothing by yourself," he declared. "If the two of us work together, I bet we can get the bulk of it out in one go."

"And we'll take care of the last of these boxes," my mom called back to him. "Looks like Nicole was done packing ahead of schedule, for once!"

I rolled my eyes, but my heart was warmed to hear my mother's teasing form of love, once more. "Missed you too, Mom," I told her, and truly, I did...but no matter how much I missed her, I wasn't longing for her. I wasn't longing for Kade, either.

That person...that wonderful man was walking by my side, sneaking a casual grope of my backside in before we turned the corner into the community laundry room.

**

College was a time for trying new things: that's what they told me at the orientation, but it was dipping into my old, bad habits that made me feel alive for the first time in months...I knew what I liked, and new things were well and good, but some tastes just didn't change, no matter how long it had been.

The weight of his paws on my shoulders as I knelt to the floor...the grip of his digits as I let a single breath tease over the sensitive tip of his cock...that delightful groan, muffled as much as it could be by the digging weight of his fangs in his own lip...

...Whoever said that a blowjob was only special for the person receiving wasn't doing it right, honestly.

"Good thing your mother is so worried about b-being self-reliant," my daddy whispered to me, the evidence of his misdeeds lacing his voice with a subdued chuckle. "All I did was pull the drain cover and let out a little air, but...she...s-she's gonna be out there trying to figure it out for an hour , anyway."

It wasn't just the way he spoke to me, but the things that he said: confessing what he'd done just to buy us more time alone together, admitting that he was willing to deceive Mom just to keep her off of our trail...how could I not feel like the most important girl in the world, when he was willing to do all that just to feel my breath on the tip of his cock?

He had to know more was coming, and I could feel the silent, delicate pull of his palms against the back of my shoulders, but he wasn't going to shove it down my throat, much as I quietly hoped for it.

His passion for me was only equaled by his concern about me, and that meant I was the one who had to encourage him to take the gloves off...the one who had to spur him into treating me as his sexual equal.

One flick of the tongue wouldn't be enough to do the trick, but it was my favorite way to sample the slow, beading precum that was spilling from the tip of his shaft, and a second pass would leave a fresh glisten on the warm, reddish flesh...his manhood was just so damned appealing to me, no matter how many times I saw it coated in whatever juice I decided to leave upon it.

It wasn't just his flesh, of course: Daddy was always the full package, enough so that I scarcely dated anyone during the course of my college days.

Casual fun was one thing, but when it came to dropping to my knees like this and wrapping my paws around the back of someone's thighs, he was the only man lucky enough to experience what I could really do when I relaxed my jaw and threw myself at their pulsing flesh.

No matter how many times he lived that experience, his head was always thrown back the first time that I took him all the way in. I never stopped trying to capture his gaze, even when his balls were settled against my chin...even when the bulge of his cock was visible through my throat...even when I was wiping off the mess of his seed when we were all said and done.

I knew he'd look back down at me sooner or later, and any details that his voice would fail to convey, or, in this instance, wouldn't be allowed to convey, would be shared with that gaze.

I wanted him to moan, of course: I wanted him to scream at the top of his lungs and grab me by the back of the head while he tried to swab my throat, but just because Mom and Kade were busy didn't mean that everyone else was gone.

Most of the other students had gone home, but the last thing we needed was to draw attention to ourselves...that meant keeping most of my spit to myself, much as I knew Daddy loved the messier sounds that came with a deep, suckling blowjob.

"Practicing with t-that toy I bought you?" he asked, and already, his voice sounded ragged to me: whether it was anticipation or a long, difficult dry spell, Daddy wasn't going to last as long as he normally had. "You haven't c-come up for air...e-even once, baby..."

His paws shifted from my shoulders and cupped the sides of my face, rubbing my cheeks in a way that was so comforting, it almost cemented his status as someone who'd taken care of me for so long, but...that role was completely betrayed by every thrust that followed.

Mind you, I didn't have a problem with him changing the paradigm, nor using his cock to achieve that end. If anything, I was delighted to feel the tip of his member bumping against the back of my throat, daring me to gag and make a noise; I wasn't going to give in that easily, but with his paws around my face, holding me steady and turning me into a living sex toy, it was getting tougher to resist putting my paws on the front of his thighs.

Survival instinct and a suppressed gag reflex were telling me to do just that, but I'd learned to listen to a different form of instinct when I was with Daddy: that voice, speaking with a more alluring tone, told me to drop my palms from the backs of his thighs, explore the strength of his muscles on the way down, and finally, settle my fingertips on my own tummy, just above the waistline of my shorts.

They didn't stay there long, but I knew Daddy was looking...and I wanted to make just as much of a show of sneaking my fingers down into my shorts as I did the rest of the act; it was a point of pride that I could manage my own pleasure while taking care of his, not to mention that I'd kept from gagging a single time, even when his sack slapped against the bottom end of my muzzle.

"Sure hope you've already got a load going."

His voice was hushed, but hurried. I'd already noticed the sample of precum that he'd sprayed over the back of my tongue, but even before he gave that verbal warning, I'd noticed the throbbing of his length against the roof of my mouth.

I'd already gotten plenty of clues; even the subtle increase of pressure in his grip was a signal of what was to come next, but he could always have come back from the edge, if he really wanted to.

I was still waiting for him throw me up against the wall and bend me over...to ravage me the way that he had so many times before when he had the chance...but I knew Daddy a little better than that, by then.

How could I blame him for getting carried away when my spit was nearly frothing around the base of his cock from his rapid pace?

How could I possibly be upset with him for making me feel like such a princess, praising me with his every word and letting me have my favorite treat over and over again?

"Nicole...b-baby...I'm g-gonna cum...f...fuck!"

His voice was sharp, but his warning was clear: I was already swallowing around his tip when he offered those first words, but I knew better than to think I'd be able to keep it all.

Gulp after gulp, I kept bobbing my head and my neck against his tool, but there was always so much more than he could properly explain to me. The weight of his knot emerged and that, too, I coated with spit after just a few passes, but his yield was sneaking back out through the corners of my lips and spilling down my chin, over my neck, soaking my fur...

...It was finally enough to make me gag, and as I coughed, he eased back into the machine behind him, clutching it for purchase and letting a few, errant ropes of his mess spray over the bridge of my muzzle.

I could see how proud he was when I made a strong, emphatic ulp of his mess and adjusted my glasses, as if I'd been in total control the whole time...but the paw dipped into my panties made it clear enough that I was coming undone.

I hoped he didn't mind...and that Mom and Kade would never figure out our little secret.

**

"Good thing you've got a day bag to hide all of this evidence in..."

I still couldn't remember what it was that made me change the way I looked at my little girl, but then, I knew that she wasn't a little girl anymore, the first time we shared that look.

It never felt right to reduce our connection to the simplest of clichés: to never having realized what a beautiful, young woman she'd grown up to be...it was always more than that, and even in those moments, when I was lifting her from the floor and setting her backside on the folding table, there was so much more to her than I'd realized.

She'd grown as a person in her time at college, but she'd truly blossomed into her truest self in that time, and I feared that I might have missed something, even when the best part of that change was settled right before my eyes.

"Thought I was being loud enough to stop you," Nicole admitted to me. "But I'm glad you didn't...I can't remember the last time I felt so warm inside...I didn't realize how much I missed this."

She wasn't the type to wear cute, little booty shorts when she first left our home, but Nicole had come into her own, without her brother's influence on her social life, nor without my wife's influence on her fashion choices.

She was truly becoming her own person, free of those outside elements, and yet...I was lucky enough that she still harbored a soft spot for me, as more than her old man.

"It's easy to think about how long we've been apart...easy to think about how much time has passed since we've seen each other, but those thoughts never compare to knowing the real thing again," I agreed with her, leaning over the folding table and pressing my palms around the sides of her full, smooth thighs. "It'll be such a blessing to have you around the house again..."

She was flustered by the idea; she'd always been adorable when she was overwhelmed, but I could see her smile widening at the thought.

Those soft, smiling lips were never so delicious as they were right then, when I kissed upon them and picked up the final taste of the mess that I'd left in her mouth before.

Nicole couldn't have guessed that I'd still have that sort of endurance about me. Everyone had heard of old man strength, but no doubt, she'd seen the subtle patches of gray that had spread over my fur, the heavier bags under my eyes, all the signs of age that I wanted to hide...but I let her see me as I truly was, determined to prove to her that I was still good to go a second time, if she demanded it.

After making such a mess of her face, and seeing those stains on the crotch of her shorts, I simply couldn't let her ride all the way back to the hotel without getting her off, but seeing her shock when I was stiff as a board and ready to go again in seconds was almost as much fun as giving her a new case of rugburn.

Picking her up after the fact, just hearing that delighted giggle: that little bit of elation in her voice that could only come from being reunited with me...it was the kind of thing that I would have driven a week for, much less the day and a half that I had.

"I can't wait to get home and have you help me set up my room again," she echoed my sentiment, and I pressed another quick, messy kiss to her lips, desperate to hear the giggles that came when she was overcome with happier emotions. "But you and I know we're living on borrowed time right now, Daddy. Mom's gonna figure out the tire sooner or later..."

"Pretty clever of me though, wasn't it?"

Holding the valve cap in my pocket and grinning at my own clever nature, I did feel a hint of guilt over causing my wife the kind of stress she must have been going through, but it would do my heart well to know that she still found me useful.

If she had any idea what I'd done, she would have never let me hear the end of it for pulling such a prank.

**

Fortune had a funny way of smiling on me, that day.

Beyond getting a smattering of kisses from my wife for being the hero of the family and such a handyman, I was feeling incredible for what I'd done to our daughter only minutes before, and my son remained none the wiser: to be honest, I think we could have put Kade in the car with us without breaking his concentration, if we had the gumption to lift him on our own.

Traffic cooperated fantastically on the way back from the campus, and after the effort of helping out with the move, I wasn't surprised at all when my wife decided to call it an early night. I was _slightly_put off by the fact that Kade wandered away from the hotel, claiming that he was meeting up with some friends at an Internet café, but the boy had finally packed on some muscle in the recent years; he could take care of himself, and he knew what he was doing.

I didn't think the stars would align so well, but they'd done exactly that: that left my daughter and I with nothing but time to kill, and when my wife was completely zonked out, I could see Nicole standing by the door of the hotel room...with a tiny, messy leak springing from the edge of those cute, little shorts that she'd picked for the day.

I stood up as quietly as I could, looked back over my shoulder for good measure, and found myself stifling a gasp when my little Nicole reached back, tugged at the edges of her shorts, and hoisted them up closer to her own crotch, pushing the outline of her sex against the fabric...forcing out even more of what I'd left inside of her.

I'd known her to be a healthy young woman with a natural, growing passion for the act of sex, but this was something more than that; for just a moment, despite having worlds more experience than she did, I felt like I was the young, plucky virgin that was about to have his world rocked by the skills of a sensual minx.

She was struggling to contain her giggle as she released her shorts and snuck out of the hotel room, but she kept her voice down, and kept a secret hidden, even from me , until we were far away enough from the room that I knew our voices wouldn't carry back to my wife.

"You know we're never gonna be able to find more privacy than we would in the hotel room, right?" I asked her, thinking I had a clue where she was leading me to. "Unless you wanted to try the back of the van, but if your brother forgot something in there..."

"The room would be nice, but as much as it'd be fun to see if we could stay silent while Mom slept, there's no way Kade's gonna be asleep until three in the morning...and he probably won't even be back from the café until it closes. The van probably won't work, but...there's no hours on the hotel pool, and when I walked by it earlier, it was pretty much empty..."

I wouldn't have been able to resist that kind of invitation, but Nicole was still giggling at me when I looked down at my clothes. "You think they'd be okay with me hopping in there in my boxers? I didn't really bring swim trunks..."

"Neither did I," she confirmed. "But no one's gonna make a fuss at a girl for swimming in shorts and a bra..."

I didn't think she was right, but seeing that subtle trickle of my first mess on her inner thigh, and how brazenly she walked around while still leaking, I was completely overcome by her suggestion; I couldn't begin to argue with her, even when I knew I'd be right.

Being wrong, for the first time ever, was much more fun than that.

"Certainly not when her father is around to tell them off," I finally agreed, but Nicole gave me an interesting look, over her shoulder.

"That could be the case," she murmured. "Or...it could just be that we're a young, wild couple that's taking advantage of adult swim?"

I still wasn't sure where she'd picked up such a flair for the wild and dramatic aspects of sensuality, but I wasn't complaining one bit: I was walking that much faster to the large, glass windows of the hotel pool, silently praying that Kade wouldn't get a wild hair up his ass and decide to go for a swim for the first time in ages.

Those windows created an even greater thrill, as I stepped into the water of the pool, side by side with her...holding an arm around her hip, cupping her backside with a full, open palm and forcing her to fall right in with a soaking splash...I almost felt bad about the fact that she was still leaking my seed, knowing it would go into the pool, but...that was what chlorine was for, after all.

If not for the obvious problem of getting said chlorine in her body, I would have been more aggressive: I wouldn't have stopped at holding her against me under the guise of the water, or sliding a palm under her top to cup her breasts within my palm.

I certainly wouldn't have stopped at rubbing my other paw against her mound and feeling, even in the cool, refreshing pool, just how warm her body was, fired up with anticipation.

We'd only be able to take it so far underwater, but she was still grinding back against me, offering a gaze that carried an even greater heat that I could feel through her body, and finally...her lips pressed against my own as we floated there, embraced in a way that we'd never been able to experience before.

There was passion in her lips that I didn't feel anywhere else in my life: it felt wrong, thinking of how great a kisser my wife was, but knowing in the heat of that moment that I'd never feel anything quite like the thrill of tasting Nicole that way...no one, and nothing could compare to how expertly she feathered her tongue against my own, encouraging me to do whatever I wanted with her sensitive bodice.

I didn't want to rush the kiss: I didn't want to rush anything , but she was giggling throughout the exchange, able to feel my cock pressing against the curve of her rump, grinding against her with building anticipation.

She knew as well as I did that we wouldn't be able to take things any further where we were, and rushing to the locker rooms carried the risk of me tripping over my own dick, but that was well worth it for the privacy that we found in the shower stalls.

I had a favor to repay, of course, and I was delighted to find that Nicole didn't need any further encouragement to accept her reward.

Her shorts were so small in my grip that I had to be careful not to tear them, but my claws still left their marks on her backside as I worked, tugging the shorts and then, the cotton of her panties down to the floor of the shower. She already had the water turned on to rinse away the remnants of the pool, but she had her backside pushed out and perked for me, grinding her ass against the underside of the length...

...She'd never be able to wash away all of the precum I was leaking, but before I could do what I most wanted, I needed to repay that favor, tongue first.

"D...Daddy? Oh...fuck...y-you don't have t...to..."

She was whimpering in an instant, her palms spread against the tiles for purchase...each word another lyric in an ongoing song of passion that only she could ever sing to me.

"Drinking up y-your own juices...w-when did you g-get so naughty, Daddy?"

I didn't notice the mess, to be completely honest: I noticed her natural arousal on my tongue, and bit back on my frustration that it was being diluted by the showerhead.

I noticed just how pouted and full her petals were against either side of my tongue as I cleaned her up and prepared her for another romp, knowing that she'd be begging for something more fulfilling than my tongue before too long.

"A proper gentleman doesn't mind the mess," I whispered to her, wanting her to know how well she deserved to be treated: I didn't think she'd been with anyone else in my stead, but I didn't know, either...and if any other man was ever so lucky to sample my daughter, I wanted to make sure that she was treated with respect, like the goddess that she'd become, to me.

It might not have been worship, to be kneeling behind her and slurping up her juices with such greed...maybe it was closer to obsession...but that wasn't stopping either of us from begging for the kind of salvation that we'd only ever found in one another.

"Daddy..."

The warm, natural moisture was dripping over my chin and spilling down my neck; I still wanted more.

"Fuck...f-fuck me, Daddy... please!"

It should have been an awful sound: to hear her claws raking down the tiles of the shower stall, but they were a call to action for me, prompting that first grip of my paws at her hips, and that warm, leaking tip of my cock to kiss against her womanhood anew.

She deserved a little longer...a little bit more of a warm up, I thought, but I'd always prided myself on making sure that my partners were ready to go before I started: Nicole was brilliant at letting me know that she was okay, and throwing her hips back at me to swallow up the front half of my shaft was a better method than I could have hoped for.

For her sake, I pushed the showerhead down and toward the floor, not wanting to wash away any of the natural lubrication she produced.

"Well, since you asked so nicely..."

I wasn't doing it on purpose: shifting my voice so low and growling so deeply into her ear. She simply brought those natural reactions out of me, and feeling her delightful moisture wrap around my shaft was a treat that I never took for granted, but there was more to the connection than sex, no matter how simple the act could be.

The delicate swish of her tail against my tummy, the roll of her backside to rise and meet with my hips, the pressure and clench of her inner muscles around me: it was though she'd been taking notes on all the things I most enjoyed about the act of sex itself, but...that couldn't have been the case.

She was a dedicated student. She'd been studying hard and staying diligent with her work; it was simply the depth of our connection that guided her body to move in such concert with me own.

It was exactly that, keeping us on pace with each other as I moved faster and reached around her sides to cup her breasts from behind...that kept us on a wavelength from the first, curious thrusts to the ramping of my pace.

In the laundry room, I simply couldn't allow myself to come undone like that, given the risk.

This wasn't much better, but it was better enough that I didn't have a problem clutching at her soft, perfect tits and holding her in close as the tip of my cock drew closer and closer to her womb.

I didn't want to let her free: I wanted to knot her womanhood and claim her as my own...not just as my daughter, but as the lover that I'd been missing for what felt like entire ages.

It was still up to her, however, as I freed the beast and pummeled into her capable body. My hips became a blur, my body crashed into hers over and over again, and in the midst of it, she threw her head back and yelped, unable to contain her passions any better than I could.

"Inside...d-do it inside, Daddy...fill me up again!"

When she allowed her passion to guide her, she demanded the best of everyone around her: I took a certain pride in knowing...or at least _thinking_that I was the only lover she'd ever shared such a level of desire with.

The way she was fluttering around my cock as I pressed it into her over and over again...the way we trembled in almost perfect time with each other as my paws cupped her chest and pulled her into my own...even down to the tiny, but all too visible streak of warm, slippery juice that spilled from the peak of her sex as she came...everything was telling me that she was the one I was meant to be with.

I couldn't say it: I allowed my body to speak for me as I grunted into her ear, panting through every second of my release. The weight of my knot, I felt, would better convey that message, and being able to feel the same through her pubic mound as I rested my palm there was a thrill that I hadn't anticipated.

Even as my cum spread across the inside of my own daughter's passage, flooding her womb and leaving her doomed to make another mess when my knot came loose, I felt as though I was the luckiest man in the world, having found my soulmate again.

On the floor of that shower, spooning my little girl in the soothing flow of the water, I could sense her wanting to tell me that she felt the same, but she was quivering long after the delights of her climax would have faded.

"Shame this drive home won't take the rest of our lives, Daddy."

Her paw came to settle on the back of my own, right against the flesh that joined us closer than anything else ever could...but her fingertips were swirling over my wedding ring, unable to ignore the weight and feel of that metal band as easily as I so often did.

"We can't just keep doing this forever..."